Leaving your job vs. leaving your manager
During the Organizational Management class I teach, I open the first class with an open discussion about bosses. I give everyone in the room an opportunity to tell a story about a bad manager from their past. Most students have an example from one of their first jobs - flipping burgers and baby sitting make for excellent bad boss antidotes. A few will open up about a current supervisor that they actively dislike, and then there are one or two students who insist that they’ve never had a bad boss (these are the entrepreneurs who have never worked for anyone but themselves).
I kick the class off in this way to drive home a very important organizational truth - people don’t leave jobs, they leave bosses.
There are some instances when this is not the case. Sometimes a job is just crappy or it wasn’t explained thoroughly during the interview process, but once one has committed to a certain field and knows what is expected of them in a role - typically the catalyst that starts one considering a different job is being unhappy with their leader.
This is most certainly the case for the recent change in my career track. I am leaving a job I love (really, I think that this is the most interesting, meaningful work I’ve done to date and I feel fortunate to get paid to do it) to take a shot in a field that I have no real experience in. Granted, personality tests and graduate coursework indicate I will likely excel in marketing, and a decade of financial services experience is certainly an asset, but this “strategist” thing is a whole new path for me. It’s a risk, but I am jumping at the chance to get away from my current supervisor.
Why would I be in such a hurry to leave a job I adore? Here are some of the behaviors that indicated to me that it was time to move on: My current boss…
1. Sends mixed messages
In my annual review she actually said, “I can’t figure it out, but the people on your team really seem to like working with you.” How’s that for a back-handed complement?
2. Believes my role has no value
My boss inherited my department in a corporate reshuffle (I first wrote about this here) - and she really has no concept of what my job entails. Even though she has access to my calendar and I cc her on meeting notes, she has no clue what I do all day. She doesn’t believe in enhancing the customer experience through systems improvements or spending money doing market research - core components of what product development does.
4. Is an adversary
Before taking responsibility for the product area of our bank, this woman was nearly always the biggest obstacle to getting a project approved for execution. She would often be the only dissenting vote in the group - this didn’t change when she became my boss. Even though I would clear a project through her prior to taking it to committee, she would often wait until we were in front of the CEO to ask questions or challenge my conclusions.
5. Makes me feel stupid for asking questions
This woman asked me to put together a rather complicated portfolio analysis tool and design an accompanying report without any guidance what-so-ever. When I asked for some assistance, she said: “I would help someone making half your salary, but you have a MBA.. You should be able to figure this out.” I am pretty sure that she said this because she didn’t know what she wanted, and she was frustrated with me for asking for clarification.
5. Encouraged me to apply for other jobs
You don’t need to be Captain Obvious to see this red flag. Over the course of the past couple of weeks, my manager has taken to pointing out open positions in other areas of the bank. Clearly, this woman has no interest in being my boss.
To be fair, I do think that my leader had my best interests at heart (the senior management team at my bank are considering a RIF - and I am pretty sure that she was trying to protect me from being downsized), but I would have much preferred a candid discussion about my future career path to the tactics outlined above. That candid discussion only occured after she discovered I was interviewing in another area of the corporation.
Does anyone out there have any nightmare boss stories to share? Leave them in the comments section and I will pass them on to my Org Management class.
Stumble it!
March 19th, 2008 at 11:58 am
That indeed sounds like a boss I’d want to leave.
I think in the last job I left it was more the job than the boss (wasn’t explained well in the interview would be the best way of saying it). But she wasn’t so wonderful that I couldn’t help staying.
One of my current bosses:
1. Is extremely inefficient.
This one sums up the points below.
2. Is inexperienced when it comes to technology.
I’ve been at the library for less than 3 months and I already know most of the computer system better. She knows a few things that I don’t, but I’m always having to help her. And she’s been doing it for much longer.
3. Is slow.
In a library setting, this is maddening. She’s slow with patrons, she’s slow with getting things done, she’s always distractable so you never know if she actually wants you to do something or if she’s not ready yet because she’ll stop and start you a few times while she looks into something else.
She also can’t multi-task. Again, bad in a supervisory setting in a library. They’re quite busy.
4. Is forgetful.
She’ll forget when you’re scheduled to work, what she told you to do…
On the plus side, things are fairly laid back because if you can outpace her (which isn’t hard) then you’re doing ok. And I like enough things about the job that I can deal. It also makes me happy that there are two supervisors (the other is much better) and that I don’t have to work with her all the time.
March 19th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
What an excellent point. I left my first “real job” because I didn’t trust my boss’s integrity and it was really stressing me out to work for her because I worried that she was going to ask me to do something I felt was truly unethical and I would have to refuse. I left before that happened, and got a good reference from her that helped me get into law school - although I do believe I wrote the reference letter, with my dad’s help, and she just signed it.
I think I’ve already said it, but again, I want to wish you well in your new job. I’m sure you’ll do well!
March 19th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
I read your post with interest: I am the boss at my current organization, started in September 2007…and my small staff have been guilty of the first four bullets! It was a ackward situation that I entered and there have been some really frustrating days for me. I am sure you wonder — if I am the boss, why would I tolerate these kinds of things? — I ask MYSELF that sometimes…but the reality of things is that one person leaves next month and I have really just been trying to suck it up until then as it would be unpopular with my Board of Directors to do otherwise, and the other gal I am hoping will shape up or move on.
When the tables are turned, and the new boss is the recipient of these types of actions what do you suggest? There are definately things that I would have done differently in September and beyond to be a more authoritative figure, but it was and continues to be an ackward situation with the current staff involved. I would love to have your input, thanks!
March 20th, 2008 at 8:25 am
@BirthdayGirl – excellent question, and difficult to answer without knowing the details of your specific situation. Small teams are especially challenging, but I’ll take a stab at it.
Based on my experience, this sounds like a good time for “come to Jesus” meetings with your staff. If you don’t have regular one-on-ones with your direct reports (these should be scheduled no less than monthly), I would recommend scheduling a meeting with each member of your team and tackling this head-on (call it a “mid-year check-in” or “six month review” so that they don’t feel threatened going into the meeting).
I advise you to open the meeting by stating your purpose up front, something like: “I feel like our working relationship is a little awkward and I assumed that it would improve once I settled into this position, but its been six months now and this doesn’t seem to be fixing itself. I want to know what I can do to make communication/work more comfortable for both of us.” This is going to be a difficult discussion, and you both are probably going to want it over with as quickly as possible, but that’s a cop-out – you need to get each person on your team talk to you and “unpack” a bit (maybe you didn’t sign up to be a psychologist when you took this job, but that is a big part of what being a manager is).
Be prepared to hear things that are uncomfortable – maybe people on your team resent you because they thought they were better qualified for your role, or maybe they don’t see the value in management – if that’s the case, you need to be pretty transparent. Pass on business information as you get it, ask for feedback and advice (even if you already know the answer), go out of your way to show how much you value your team members.
Don’t close the meeting until you each have one or two actionable items to work on going forward. A meeting (any meeting) is worthless without action items and deadlines for meeting these deliverables.
Finally, keep in mind that some people are just difficult and some people will never like you, no matter what. These individuals need to know the score – you’re the boss and being able to play nice with the boss is part of the responsibilities that go along with their job.
Also, if you haven’t read the book “Crucial Conversations” by Patterson, et al – I highly recommend it. There is an accompanying workbook and audio tape that you may find helpful.
Good luck!
March 20th, 2008 at 11:10 am
I had a boss who was so good, he became bad. He kept taking on more and more job duties that needing doing, but this made it harder for him to continuing doing great things on his original job duties. I ended up picking up so much slack that it was like doing two jobs myself.
That might have been okay, but I really didn’t like those extra job duties. I already had my favorite job in the department. Also, my pay didn’t go up much, let alone enough.
**
I once had a boss who would have been bad except that she so admired the person she replaced that she was able to simulate being a pretty good boss for almost the entire project. Woo hoo!
**
My worst boss was the one who wanted to micromanage. For example, she made me re-name things in a way that, even discounting all the time that took, resulted in a less efficient result. I was out one day, and someone had to reformat a document and it took all day. So when I came back, I had to reformat every single document. Just in case.
She also had different standards for herself than others. When she wanted to leave to take classes, she could (even as a receptionist), but others were too vital ever to leave the office. She didn’t like people taking vacations, especially long ones, but then she took a five-week vacation at the same time as the person she was the main back-up for.
She didn’t have a problem with people calling in sick. So I admit that one time when I had very little notice, and my roommate’s parents came for a visit, and I was only feeling the tiniest bit sick, I called in sick instead of asking for a vacation day.
Finally one day she decided not to come back after pregnancy leave. I discovered this by asking one of my co-workers why she was singing “Ding-dong! The witch is dead!”
**
I also want to say that sometimes it’s a co-worker that’s the problem. I’ve had a colleague who never checked the in-box, but I did, so I ended up doing most of the work. (If there were two things in the box, I’d give her one of them.)
There was the co-worker who just didn’t bother to ever do the duties she didn’t like.
There was the one who took vacations during the busy times and then quit right at the beginning of a hiring freeze.
Have I mentioned that I don’t like doing two people’s jobs? You know, the main reason I quit jobs is when I’m doing two people’s jobs and I don’t like, and never would have applied for, the second job. I never noticed that before.
March 20th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
I don’t have any nightmare boss stories, yet. In fact to date all of my immediate managers I’ve loved and have felt like they really wanted to help me succeed.
However I am currently thinking about my options and trying to decide if I need to quit my job because of a potential new bad immediate manager and my concerns what what direction my career path is going to be taking due to some temporary company changes.
Thanks for posting this! It makes me feel a little better to know its not just me.
March 22nd, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Luck has always been on my side in the boss dept. I had one jerk of a boss who had hired my cousin as a temp, liked her, then hired me full-time, hated me. After one last abusive memo left on my chair for me to find before he arrived, I dropped the keys in the middle of the office floor, left all the phones to ring their little phone heads off, and pulled the door shut on the way out. Had to sic the state Wage & Hours division on him to get the pay he owed me.
Otherwise, all my bosses have been ranged from good enough to outstanding, except for a few inept deans (academics, by & large, are not managers and should never be faulted for not being managers).
Now that I’m a boss, let me suggest that if your boss is drawing your attention to job opportunities, it’s time to put that resume in circulation! I recall showing my Personnel Problem a whole series of online job banks and sharing some specific job openings, hoping and praying she would move on. She being an exempt state worker, firing her was pretty much out of the question. She never took the hint. Only when she realized we were about to RIF her job did she “retire” (not vested, didn’t understand what “retire” means; didn’t understand that if she’d sat tight till we eliminated the position we would have forked over three months of pay and let her go home to enjoy it).
Unless you KNOW your job is about to be RIFed or you’re among a group at high risk of lay-off, you can expect a manager who suggests you apply elsewhere is not your friend.
March 28th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
maybe she doesn’t like working with large people.
April 5th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Awesome post and I definitely agree!
I left my boss because she was just evil in some ways and I knew that my focus was best put on my final year of graduate school. the job itself grew to be monotonous with no opportunities for growth. Since Ive never remained in a job that caused me grief I decided it was time to leave. I liked the company and most of my co workers but I began to see that by staying there I was sacrificing precious time to study for exams and prepare for projects. Not to mention I wouldnt be able to continue because of my internship.
I have NO regrets leaving because I recently heard that my former boss took a settled job from their intern because she felt that she could do a better job than the intern. The intern is also pregnant with her first child, now jobless will graduate ith no job, even though the initially offered one to her.
So I have no regrets. I would rather dog walk or work part time into the evening with my current internship site that go back there. In hindsight she was sweet as pie when she was able to control you via puppet strings but once you showed a glimmer of having your own mind on things (ie initiative) she turned on me and shot me down.
I will admit that my work declined towards the end, but it was definitely due to my lack of interest in the work.
I really like your site, I need to get over here more often, especially since you’re planning your wedding, I like to see how the details all unravel. Mine was hell LOL!
April 7th, 2008 at 12:38 am
Wow. Its helpful to read about other people having bad boss situations, because sometimes it feels like its just you.
In 2003, I left the job I hated with a good boss to return to school. I worked in the bookstore on campus and was a Student Assistant to an absolutely horrible boss.
She was a micromanager. I mean she would have tasks written up on a sheet of paper and wanted me and her other assistant to mark things off as we completed the tasks and then bring the paper back to her to show her that we’d completed the tasks. Our word wasn’t good enough.
I was older than she was, but she treated me like I was a child and this was my first job.
Unfortunately, I went from the frying pan into the fire. I worked in for a Financial Services company and our department just grew overnight with more work and needed a new manager.
R. was hired in to be the new manager. From the instant I met her, I knew I wouldn’t like her. We had a lot of problems in the 18 months she was my boss, but the thing that sticks out in my mind the most is below.
I had carpel tunnel surgery scheduled last February. I called her from the doctor’s office to tell her my condition and let her know about my surgery.
I submitted a time off request for the surgery the next day, and the week before I was to have my hand worked on, she calls me into her office and asks me if I can change the date of my surgery. Several people were out that day. One was getting married, one was in someone else’s wedding, et cetera. I was having surgery.
I told her I couldn’t because my parents were coming up to take care of me and they’d just had a fire in their house so construction was beginning as soon as they returned.
She actually got angry with me about that. That’s when I knew things would never get better between the two of us.
October 17th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
“people don’t leave jobs, they leave bosses”… I had a zen moment when I read this quote.